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Monday, April 12, 2004

Answers to a Europhile... 

I often take part in Internet forums, particularly the CDA (Conservative Democratic Alliance). There are other non-Tories who post messages there, and one with whom I often cross swords is "Alistair". We often come to a similar conclusion, albeit for completely different reasons! Here's my reply to his original pro-EU post, which led from a discourse on foreign ownership of the media. Read from the bottom to the top in this case, in order to read his original first.

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Alistair,

You have raised several points which I shall be happy to answer in depth (your statements in quotes, my reply with asterisks either end):

"I too think it would be wonderful to be able to be independent of everyone. But I simply do not trust the Civil Service and politicians, especially Tory ones, to maintain British independence from the USA."

*** That's why we need a radically different government with people in charge who simply tell the Civil Service and old gang politicians where to go. We need a new type of politician, the like of which we have never seen in this country. ***

"Our nuclear deterrent is dependent on the USA, unlike that of France; our media is dominated by US products; our language resembles ever more closely Americanese; our popular music is largely American."

*** Agreed. We have been far too dependent upon the U.S. for too long. The only way to counter this is by a cultural revival which restores an English/Scots/British way of doing things, reminiscent of the past, but without the hardship and ill-treatment meted out in some cases. We could start with the language. In speech by using good old words like "bloke" or "chap" rather than "Guy". I have no problem with "old" America, but the country seems to be undergoing a rapid moral and cultural decline. The old icons and culture are not what the U.S. is about anymore. Today it is the land of rap, video nasties, rampant greed, and sleaze. We are copying them with disasterous results. ***

"We went to war against Iraq"

*** And now we face Vietnam Mark 2 ***

"I know, and you also know, that any future Tory administration will drag us further under Washington's heel, and probably into NAFFTA (sic), an organisation which would give the USA an even greater hold over us than it already has, and, fundamentally, without representation."

*** I too oppose membership of NAFTA ***

"Because of the blessing (or curse) of the English language, we are drawn culturally towards the States. We are not strong enough on our own to resist the blandishments of a vastly larger and richer power, the world's remaining superpower. Which is why we need a counterbalance to US hegemony. Which is where the EU comes in."

*** This is where we part company. The EU is still part of the globalist agenda. Note how the EU started off as a Coal and Steel agreement, then became the E.E.C., then the EC and finally the E.U. Well, I say finally, but actually it won't end there, for Turkey is the next in line to be gobbled up, followed by Libya once Gadaffy is gone, then Israel, then ... who knows. Many on the Left have been conned into the idea that the EU represents some sort of alternative to the U.S. now that the Soviet Union has collapsed. But closer inspection reveals that the Thatcherite economic policy of contracting out public services, especially the railways has been ordained by the EU. Why do the heads of multinationals love the EU? Why are they not flocking to Euro-Sceptic parties? Because they knwo that the EU operates for the heads of industry and that the "better working conditions" are incentives to keep the Scandinavians etc on board. If the EU became a facimile of British policy from 1979-1990 there would only be Britain left! ***

"No EU nation on its own is strong enough to be truly independent of the USA. But working together we can all provide a counterweight to US cultural dominance of the civilised world."

That's not an alternative. That's like saying to an Eastern European during the war that the only way to stop the Nazis was to join the Communists. The EU is heading down a totalitarian path, as the recent edicts on Xenopobia have shown. Fine, if you wish to be conscripted into a European Army at some point in the future and take orders from a German officer, but is that why we fought two World Wars? Surely nations can co-operate without losing their national sovereignty? ***

"And speaking personally, I think co-operation and association with the Continentals, led by Paris and Berlin, is far better for us than being subsumed by the USA. At least we have representation."

*** "We" do not have representation, as the plan is for future European elections to be contested only by Europe-wide parties, not by nationally based parties. Perhaps this will be the last EU election contested by parties as we know them. ***

"I also think that cross cultural arrangements, such as the EU-run Socrates/Erasmus programme which allows British students the opportunity to study for up to a year in Continental universities and so broaden their horizons, are an excellent thing."

*** I don't know about this arrangment I confess, but again why does it have to be EU-run? If it has merit it should survive, even if the EU was disbanded tomorrow... ***

"The EU has also been instrumental in bringing about key improvements in employment, safety and food labelling which the British Government would never have done on its own and which the Tories resisted tooth and nail."

*** The British governments that we have endured may not have brought about these improvements, but that's only because they were the wrong Governments. A radical Populist style government which put people first before the greed of the multinationals would have approved many of these measures...outside of the EU. ***

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Give it time and the EU will expand into Asia and North Africa, probably renaming itself the Eurasian Union. Why is the establishment so keen to dabble in the Middle East? To take over their resources and make them "consumers" (serfs). That's what the war in Iraq was all about. Saddam was seen as the softest target, as he had the least backing from the Islamic World. Gadaffy was the next most isolated, and they've already started work on him, as the recent Blair visit illustrated. The long term game plan is not to create a bulwark against Americanisation. If the politicians of Europe think that they are useful idiots. Globalisation is not about competing power blocs... it is about one bloc, which controls all. There would be one economic model and the United Nations would take the political decisions, whilst the corporations operated beyond national boundaries. Once the last enemy of global commercialism and standardisation fell, the world would enter a new dark age. No world wars, just numerous and ongoing terrorist attacks and civil disobedience. It would mean that every nation had its own "French Resistance" fighting to restore its national heritage/independence. The EU is just a stepping stone on the journey to that goal of globalism. It will either be subsumed into a greater America or enter a war. Edit
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Alistair
04-12-2004 05:12 PM ET (US)
That's an interesting question, Russell.

As you will have gathered I have very little time for Bush, his cowboy administration, and for 'American culture' in all its forms.

I too think it would be wonderful to be able to be independent of everyone. But I simply do not trust the Civil Service and politicians, especially Tory ones, to maintain British independence from the USA.

As we have seen, politicians, in particular Tories beginning with Churchill and ending with Major, have dragged us closer to the USA until we are now regarded as the 51st State of the Union by our Continental allies, friends and partners. Our nuclear deterrent is dependent on the USA, unlike that of France; our media is dominated by US products; our language resembles ever more closely Americanese; our popular music is largely American. We went to war against Iraq and opposed ourselves to the Continentals, for reasons I do not know, but suspect that, when a Labour Prime Minister, leader of a Government with a landslide majority, of whom most are opposed to war, takes us into that war there are things he knows about our 'special relationship' with Washington which are the sole preserve of the top reaches of the Whitehall establishment and the security services, and suggest to me that if Washington wished to bring down a British Government it could easily do so. Which is why I have repeatedly stated that we should distance ourselves from Washington and move closer to Paris and Berlin.

I know, and you also know, that any future Tory administration will drag us further under Washington's heel, and probably into NAFFTA (sic), an organisation which would give the USA an even greater hold over us than it already has, and, fundamentally, without representation.

Because of the blessing (or curse) of the English language, we are drawn culturally towards the States. We are not strong enough on our own to resist the blandishments of a vastly larger and richer power, the world's remaining superpower. Which is why we need a counterbalance to US hegemony. Which is where the EU comes in.

No EU nation on its own is strong enough to be truly independent of the USA. But working together we can all provide a counterweight to US cultural dominance of the civilised world. And speaking personally, I think co-operation and association with the Continentals, led by Paris and Berlin, is far better for us than being subsumed by the USA. At least we have representation.

I also think that cross cultural arrangements, such as the EU-run Socrates/Erasmus programme which allows British students the opportunity to study for up to a year in Continental universities and so broaden their horizons, are an excellent thing.

The EU has also been instrumental in bringing about key improvements in employment, safety and food labelling which the British Government would never have done on its own and which the Tories resisted tooth and nail.

Russell White
04-12-2004 02:05 PM ET (US)
Why do we have to choose between the EU, and the ghastly moronic Americanised Britain envisaged by Mr Murdoch? Surely we should reject both?

Alistair 318

04-12-2004 01:50 PM ET (US)
I agree with your final paragraph, James. The British media would be immeasurably better off if it had not had the likes of Murdoch and Black involved.

I agree with you in principle about Odessans... but haven't a clue whether you are thinking of anyone in particular.

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